What they DIDN'T teach you in engineering school.

I invited Masha V. Petrova to guest blog today. This year I am going to be exploring gaps in engineering education and their impact on the engineering-sales/business development interface. I couldn't think of anyone more insightful than Masha to kick things off, so I interviewed Masha!  Her responses to my questions follow.

Masha V. Petrova holds a Ph.D. in aerospace engineering and is a founder and CEO of MVP Modeling Solutions.  Her weekly blog on a variety of engineering topics, can be found at http://mvpmodelingsolutions.com/mvpblog/ . Her blog on Increasing Your Professional Value can be found at  http://successfulunemploymenttoolkit.com/blog/. 

 

Babette:  Masha, how well equipped were you, as a PhD engineer, to undertake a business development role in past companies you worked for as well as your current consulting company?

 

Masha: Aside from giving me a solid technical foundation, my engineering PhD did not prepare me for working in sales, marketing or for starting a company in any shape or form. Even for business development in a very technically oriented company, like MVP Modeling Solutions, skills completely unrelated to engineering become much more important. For example, being able to “see the big picture.” The process of getting a technical PhD teaches you the complete opposite – focusing on minute details, zeroing in on a very small focused area of research, looking at a very specific problem from every different angle, and researching your PhD topic to death.

 

Which is what you need to do, in order to conduct great research. Best technical papers focus on a very well defined problem and examine it from every possible angle. In business, especially small business, it is very important to have a big picture vision and to constantly correlate every action and task to that vision. They don’t teach you that in grad school.

 

Another thing grad school does not teach you, but that is crucial to a successful small company or to a consultant, is how to deal with people. In academia, especially in technical areas, the idea that being able to work with people is more important than your technical knowledge is seen as rather ridiculous. I cannot recall one piece of advice or knowledge from my instructors or from any of my classes that advised me how to work with other human beings effectively.

 

On the other hand, when I worked as a sales/marketing engineer at a software company, every single day I had an extensive lesson in human relationships and communication. And I can tell you from experience - learning people skills was harder then getting a PhD in Engineering.

 

Babette:  As an undergraduate, how many courses did you take that cross-trained you to speak the language of business, as well as engineering?

 

Masha: None. Even though it was a great engineering program and graduates from my class went on to work in the corporate world right after graduation, we had practically zero preparation for any type of business related work. Sure, there were senior and junior design projects, where students worked with engineers in industry and where we had to adhere to a certain project budget. That’s about it. In fact our undergraduate curriculum, at the time, made it nearly impossible to have even a minor in any non-technical subject (such as business).

 

Babette:  As a graduate student, were you encouraged to take marketing, sales or economics courses as well as grad engineering courses?

 

Masha: No. In fact, I knew of maybe one other student who took some courses after his requirement for the core engineering courses were completed. I enjoyed taking courses and continued signing up for various non-engineering courses until I graduated. But that was seen as rather strange and people kept asking me why I am bothering to learn stuff even though my course requirements for PhD were filled.

 

As grad students, no one really ever tried to explain to us how important it is to be able to understand the world of business and people relationships, whether you planned to stay in academia, work in industry or start your own company.

 

Babette:  Would you say that your education was "typical" in terms of how engineers are trained, at least in the US?

 

Masha: For the most part, yes. I got a BS in Engineering from University of Delaware, although I did manage to sneak in a minor in Religious Studies. Which is probably not a typical minor for engineering students. That helped me enormously by developing written communication skills.

 

What was not typical in terms of my graduate career was that I had an absolutely amazing thesis advisor. Extremely knowledgeable and brilliant, he was also helpful, kind and liked by everyone who knew him. That’s a very rare find in academia. Professor Forman Williams is not a typical thesis advisor. I was very lucky.

 

Babette:  What is the biggest disconnect, then, in terms of undergraduate engineers coming out of school and entering the workforce? Is this disconnect different after receiving a graduate degree? Why or why not?

 

Masha: I would say the largest disconnect was that in undergraduate school we were overwhelmed with to-do tasks. There were so many engineering courses to take, so much homework to do along with constant tests, that the main concern of an undergrad engineering student was to just get the tasks done. Typically, it was not to understand the subject in depth or to understand a particular problem, but to pick up just enough information out of the textbooks, and teaching assistants, to get the homework done and pass the tests.

 

Grad school taught me to think in depth about each subject I was studying and to actually understand what I was learning. However, neither grad nor undergrad education has prepared me for dealing with customers, dealing with a variety of people (not just other researchers), or understanding the sales, marketing and PR processes. 

 

Babette:  Should the structure of engineering education be amended in the future to create more engineers who are capable of assuming business development functions in today's global economy?

 

Masha: Most definitely. That would give engineering students an edge in the corporate world and would foster more pleasant working environments and increase creativity and innovation.

 

Babette: What advice would you give undergraduate engineering students in terms of preparing their skillset for a successful entry into the workforce?

 

Masha: No one is responsible for your education, except you. University may provide you with a curriculum, with instructors and with career fairs, but at the end it will be you looking for a job, working with people and putting food on your table. So take every opportunity to make sure that you’re prepared. Always look for internships and apply for them.  If you’re on a semester schedule, there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn’t have a different internship lined up for every winter and summer semester.  Take business, entrepreneurship and liberal arts courses if you can.

 

Babette: What advice would you give current engineering professionals in terms of career development as we move forward into 2010?

 

Masha: I don’t mean to sound like a commercial, but the www.SuccessfulUnemploymentToolkit.com is designed to provide engineers with tools to help fill the missing gaps that might have been left there by their engineering education. Take a look at the website and read the blog: www.SuccessfulUnemploymentToolkit.com/blog for more advice on increasing your value as an engineering professional.

 

 

 

Comments

[Babette Burdick]

James,

Thank you for your insightful comments!

The July 2008 Special Issue of J. Engineering Education focused on how engineering schools can produce engineers who are more globally competitive. On Feb. 5, 2010, the U Michigan held a seminar on the Future of Engineering Education. Clearly this is an important topic and an ongoing one. And apparently not all engineering programs create a uniform outcome.

The majority of comments on this particular blog post, including Masha's, reflect the sentiments of engineers who deal with business-to-business situations either as a business owner or a recently-displaced engineer/entrepreneur. As such, these individuals see a greater need for their having taken courses outside their technical comfort level. Your training and current position attest to someone who is comfortable thinking way out of the engineering toolbox.

This online forum parallels the engineering education topics being discussed at the university level. Depending on where we all sit around the table, we see the same things differently. Discussions like this are the fulcrum for change.

Best regards!

[James Conrad]

As a professor and former industry Project Manager, I have to take exception to many of the assertions of the article. Here is what I experienced:
1) My BS of Computer Science at the University of Illinois, I minored in International Business. I took Business Law, International Business, and Project Management Classes. This was 1984. I was offered a choice, and choose to expand my knowledge base.
2) My MS in Computer Engineering from NCSU included a minor in Industrial Engineering, where I took classes on Organizational Behavior and Capital Investment. This was another example of a broad education.
3) My PhD in Computer Engineering from NCSU was all technical (as it should be, like the author suggests). This is not a "flaw" of the system.

At my current employer, University of North Carolina at Charlotte, ECE students earning a BS take broad classes like: Macroeconomics, Entrepreneurship, Technical Writing, Professional Development, four broad liberal studies courses on arts, ethics, and communications. Finally in their senior year they take senior design, which is loaded with "non-technical" instruction like project management, budgeting, presentation skills, and teamwork. If you look at ABET guidelines, soft skills and business topics are an important part of a BS degree program.

Based on my discussions with other faculty at other institutions at the annual American Society of Engineering Education conference, this type of learning environment is the norm rather than a fluke. Is this a recent trend? Maybe, but I have the personal experiences that show it was available 30 years ago. I should note that there should be a distinction between elective efforts (i.e. my minors) and required efforts (i.e. the program my university currently has). As a previous commenter said, there is an Industrial Engineering degree program (as well as an increasingly popular Systems Engineering program) that delves even deeper in business topics.

Therefore, I would argue that the author's experiences are not the typical programs offered nation-wide. What may not have been prevalent 15 years ago is now commonplace.

[Babette Burdick]

astma, Your insights are spot on. There are two major cultures that intersect (perhaps collide) in the engineering-business development interface. It is important to learn to understand how both perspectives can collaborate. An engineer (or any staff member) begins to thrive, rather than survive, when they decide to learn about additional perspectives, such as venture capital mindset, entrepreneurship, economics and continuing education. Oftentimes, engineers are judged on whether they "pay" for themselves rather than whether they can move a company forward. It all depends on what type of engineer you are comfortable becoming: one who is task-oriented or one who is capable of big-picture thinking. Depending on your comfort level, one either leads or is managed. We all go through this process as we choose our career path and comfort level in engaging with others.

[astma]

What they don't teach you in engineering school: you will be managed by business school graduates who have zero technical skills and by former engineers with zero management skills. Neither will understand that you cannot produce immediate profits for them while they provide little support. To them, engineers are cost centers, not profit centers. You must learn to speak their language so you can save your own skin. Take business courses, even if in night school, and also learn to recognize that these people do not view problem solving and ethics like you do.

[Babette Burdick]

Michael, thanks for your comments on industrial engineering. I've been following that group - and various discussions - on LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com). IE may provide an undergraduate, post-grad and continuing ed option for those whose skillsets and interest levels are a fit. Best wishes, Babette

[Michael]

Your experiences and understanding of engineering education reinforce the value of an industrial engineering education. IE emerged to bridge the divide between management, technical personnel, and other organization members. So, while your comments might be applicable to some engineering education curricula, they do not apply to industrial engineering curricula. I have three IE degrees, BS through PhD, and have worked in academia, business, and industry. I would encourage engineers to pursue an IE degree as an option to round out their toolset.

[Babette Burdick]

Wendy, our collective experiences (yours, mine, Masha's) underscore the importance of self-belief in determining one's own direction. We all took "the road less travelled" - often without a map, with minimum supplies but with a lot of savvy and smarts.We weren't afraid to "learn as we went along." And thank goodness, along the way, we had good mentors and understood the value and wisdom they presented to us.

[Masha]

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for the comment! I am sorry for your experience with the engineering education. So glad to hear that you were able to persevere and do what you wanted despite the negative reaction towards your choice.

Working with computer codes and formulas, no matter how complicated, is much easier then dealing with people:)

Best!
Masha

[Wendy Soucie]

Babette & Masha,

Great interview and comments of how well prepared or ill-equipped we are for a life in sales/marketing/business development with a technical degree.

Like a lot of things in life it pays to be your own advocate and find a supporter of your views to help you at least voice your direction to engineering faculty who have never stepped out from behind the stone walls of academia.

As one of 2 female Mechanical Engineering students graduating in my college class, I was determined to be a Sales Engineer. My college professors and advisor saw no reasons for my desire to take economics, marketing, public speaking, communications, as professional electives. In fact, they pretty much shunned me after I announced this. I felt pretty alienated from the engineering faculty and students after that.

Thanks to a very key Speech Professor who supported the direction I wanted to take for my career, I have made a career in the technical sales field and recently started my own consulting business.

I now have 30 years of business experience selling and marketing technical products and services - 15 as a sales engineer. My time is mostly spent finding and communicating with technical people who have great ideas and need help to get the message out to others.

I would agree with Masha that the engineering was easy compared to selling skills, handling rejection, making sales quotas, long day and nights of travel, marketing savy etc.

Wendy Soucie
xeesm.com/wendysoucie